Sub 40 10km, on top of a lot of other stuff

[wookie]

Grrr... I signed up, tried to post, wrote a long story, talked a bunch, hit post, and it made me sign in again and lost my post. So I'm going to be brief.

Non runner, did first 10km race September 2005
2005 47:58, hadn't run much prior
2006 45:48 same, didn't run much prior, impoved time probably due to expereince and starting closer to front (crowd problems)
2007 42:45
Last summer I decided to do my first triathlon, so going into that September 2007 10km race I think I was in a lot better running shape than any of the previous years.

So, last year I decided I'd run through the fall/winter and then really pick it up in the spring and make some large improvements. Also, I play a lot of hockey and lift weights a lot. I'm 6 foot and usually about 200lbs pretty muscular, probably 8% bf. Look more like a gymnast/hockey player than a triathlete/runner.

Pulled my groin early October, couldn't/didn't run until Christmas, but kept up on the bike and in the pool and gym. So when I went back to running my IT band started giving me problems right away. Nursed this all winter/spring, couldn't run more than 5km or any hill/incline/decline without it flaring up.

Finally May I run my first 10km pain free. Then hurt my back moving.

So, I got back early June, did a half ironman, the 21km run took me 1:58 but my knee flared up again and I had to walk/jog the second 10.5 km portion.

Then did 2 olympic tri's and had run times of
45:20 (really hilly hard run)
42:54 (flat course)
and had a 40:47 10 km run on a run training day.

I qualified for world championships for the Olympic distance and decided I need to get my 10km time down a lot.

So leading up to my september 10km race that I've been doing annually I did the sub 40 program. I kept it up pretty well packed in my cycling/swimming because I found it was too hard to do both. I still did weights, and yoga and my hockey season started so I had a few ice times that ended up making my runs harder or not as fast when I did them in the same day.

So I did my 10km race and died at the 5km point. My time was 20:20 or something close and I was fading fast, I know I wasn't going to do it and I got pissed off and packed it in. Something I really regret after some reflection.

Now I really want to get this running under 40mins or better.
I also want to
play hockey
Swim
Bike
Lift Weights
Yoga (twice a week)

My hockey schedule bounces around all over the place. Sometimes games weekends/weeknights, etc. it's all over the place. Also, due to the dynamic aspect of the sport I can't run/swim/bike before since it makes it easy to get an injury. Whereas I can always run/swim/cycle/lift after hockey. Unless it's a late night game.

Any suggestions?

Thanks for reading this

[TheEd]

[COLOR="Navy"]Hi wookie and wow

first things first .. have you got any complications currently, any injuries or niggles? When last did you check your running shoes and is everything in order?

For your cycling have u had a person in the know set your saddle to the correct height for you? This can cause mega problems if not right for the individual

Then you may be happy to know that I have worked with Triathletes in the years gone by, albeit another decade ago or make that century.

But can say from coaching experience that running training will improve your overall triathlon if you continue in that direction. Both swimming and cycling are highly technical events and the training can often be used as supplementary.

Will go into further detail when the structure expands to cover the triathlon.

First things first, we need a 4k time-trial from you, standard and if you have been doing 'Tris' then u most likely have a heart rate monitor, so that feedback would be helpful.

Then we can restructure things and adjust to your needs

Till later

TheEd[/COLOR]

[wookie]

Hi wookie and wow

first things first .. have you got any complications currently, any injuries or niggles? When last did you check your running shoes and is everything in order?

My back is bothering me a little. It's an injury, not a long term problem. I just need to babysit it a bit. Ice and the exercises physio gave me. With a bit of dedication I can get it under wraps. The Yoga is also to help it out. Haven't felt my knee flare up since my last tri. I've done 21km once, and a few really hard runs and its been fine. My groin is a bit tight at the moment, that's lingering from just getting back on the ice into hockey games again. Should be fine in a day or two. Running shoes have about 200km's I bought a new pair in mid august. They feel pretty good although I might pick up a second pair in case I run two days in a row? Right?

For your cycling have u had a person in the know set your saddle to the correct height for you? This can cause mega problems if not right for the individual

Nope, it feels pretty good where it is. I did mean to go and get a bike fit, but I've kinda packed it in for the winter. Calgary sucks for biking anyway. I'll spend the majority of the fall/winter on spin bikes or I guess I'll use my bike on my rollers. Hmmm...

Then you may be happy to know that I have worked with Triathletes in the years gone by, albeit another decade ago or make that century.

Sweet, although have you worked with any triathletes that aren't triathletes and like to lift weights lol...

But can say from coaching experience that running training will improve your overall triathlon if you continue in that direction. Both swimming and cycling are highly technical events and the training can often be used as supplementary.

That's good to know. I actually think that I had a hard time with the run training these past few weeks because since I hadn't been swimming/biking I started to pack on the pounds, and I don't mean fat. I got bulky'er when I cut down (I think the swimming really keeps me lean). I actually thought the swimming would help the running/cycling, and the cycling would help the running etc. all around in a big circle.

Will go into further detail when the structure expands to cover the triathlon.

First things first, we need a 4k time-trial from you, standard and if you have been doing 'Tris' then u most likely have a heart rate monitor, so that feedback would be helpful.

Shucks... having read through this forum a bit I just knew I was going to be asked to do a 4km time trial. I don't have a heart rate monitor but I can try to get my hands on one. I have the garmin 205 which is the model that doesn't have the HR. When should I look at doing this? Today is sunday, I have hockey Monday night. Want to swim/lift today. And what do you mean by "standard"?

Then we can restructure things and adjust to your needs

Till later

TheEd

Sounds great!

Thanks a bunch!

[wookie]

Oh, and for this 4,000, if I read correctly you'd want it done on a track right? And how hard am I going? And if I can't do it on a track, I do know where I can do about 3km, pretty flat, then I'd have to do a turn and finish the last 1km going back the same way.

Thanks

[TheEd]

Hi wookie

you don't need to run out and grab a heart rate monitor, was mentioning it as I know many Triathletes would use them.

So, if you had one, we could personalise things more for you over time.

Try to do the 4k and then we have a marker to start from.

All the niggles you mention, seem to be related. What are your stomach muscles like currently, as well as your posture (how you stand - slouch or not etc)?

I take it you single? Because your putting on weight can be directly related to what you eat or maybe not?

Swimming training is normally many grinding hours in the pool and due to it being non weight bearing it is helpful, however if you have poor technique and roll while swimming it can affect a number of areas which may become tighter from running or cycling.

As for cycling and spinning .. proper spinning relates to revolutions per minute and if in the wrong gear can lead to 'crunching' and this works the leg muscles which contributes to further fatigue and is not supplementary.

Cycling is all about how you sit in the saddle and what you do when you pedal, it is the most important aspect about the bike. If cycle training is used correctly it can help via recovery, as it is also non weight bearing but the problem is if one is actually 'spinning' correctly and it equates to a purely aerobic session - heart and lungs?

I would highly recommend that your leg discrepancy is checked and to see if your body's alignment is not out or else you will continue to suffer with niggles and injuries.

Hope this is not too much detail

Good luck with trial

TheEd

[wookie]

Hi wookie

you don't need to run out and grab a heart rate monitor, was mentioning it as I know many Triathletes would use them.

So, if you had one, we could personalise things more for you over time.

Try to do the 4k and then we have a marker to start from.

Yes sir!

All the niggles you mention, seem to be related. What are your stomach muscles like currently, as well as your posture (how you stand - slouch or not etc)?

Er... ummm... I'm probably the only person in as good as shape as I am without a six pack I really need to work on my abs. That's part of the back physio stuff I need to commit too. Posture is probably okay, but not when I sit, and I sit at a desk all day. Shoulders slouch a bit, they've come out quite a few times (from the days of when I was a real hockey player lol). I'm working on it all though. Or plan too... Actually this is what inspired the yoga. twice a week, 90mins, its pretty intense too. I can't handle it if it's not very intense, I get too bored

I take it you single? Because your putting on weight can be directly related to what you eat or maybe not?

Yeah, but I eat better than I would if I had a gf. I'd be hard pressed to find a gf that would tolerate how anal I am about what I eat I just think I was doing so much cardio in the summer I didn't do as much weights or couldn't put on muscle. As soon as I scrapped the swimming/cycling and only ran I found that the only other thing I could do was lift.

Swimming training is normally many grinding hours in the pool and due to it being non weight bearing it is helpful, however if you have poor technique and roll while swimming it can affect a number of areas which may become tighter from running or cycling.

Yeah, I actually miss swimming. I went last night and felt great after I got out of the pool. Groin/hip flexor felt great, back was loose, etc. I think I'm a decent swimmer, my friend who raced on the national team said I have a good stroke. Although she wants me to roll more?

As for cycling and spinning .. proper spinning relates to revolutions per minute and if in the wrong gear can lead to 'crunching' and this works the leg muscles which contributes to further fatigue and is not supplementary.

That's really interesting. I would love if I could make it a more aerobic exercise and have fresh legs after. Because honestly, that just means I could do more.

Cycling is all about how you sit in the saddle and what you do when you pedal, it is the most important aspect about the bike. If cycle training is used correctly it can help via recovery, as it is also non weight bearing but the problem is if one is actually 'spinning' correctly and it equates to a purely aerobic session - heart and lungs?

Hmmm... I'll call the place about a proper bike fit. See what they charge (edit: bike fit $150.00). Maybe they're dead in the off season and I can get a deal. Not sure how I could apply that to a spin class. As well, spin classes seem to be taught by instructors who have taken a course and are designed for the masses. So I think they're working you to work your legs as well. I should maybe find a class that's geared towards spinning more than... well, whatever it is they're doing.

I would highly recommend that your leg discrepancy is checked and to see if your body's alignment is not out or else you will continue to suffer with niggles and injuries.

Leg discrepancy? Like if one is longer? I don't think one is, I mean... all these problems seem to be related - and stemmed from a bad groin pull. I think/hope. Who checks leg discrepancy/alignment? Please don't say a chiro

Hope this is not too much detail

Good luck with trial

TheEd

I love detail! Thanks!

I'll do the time trial on Wednesday.

[TheEd]

best day for t-t is Tuesday, that is if you want to start on the sessions on Thursday

Will go into more detail about your replies tomorrow (my time)

Till then

TheEd

[wookie]

best day for t-t is Tuesday, that is if you want to start on the sessions on Thursday

Will go into more detail about your replies tomorrow (my time)

Till then

TheEd

Took a few days off, babysitting the back. It's feeling quite a bit better. Amazingly sitting on a ball at work helps. As well as at home. Going to try to get 3 or so runs in and then do my time trial October 21st (tuesday). Will update then.

[TheEd]

wookie .. there truthfully seems to be an 'alignment' problem at the moment and you may struggle a great deal if you don't get these things checked and sorted before you start training vigorously.

any good physio or even personal trainer at a gym should be able to check leg discrepancy .. what happens during training is that muscles tighten and begin to pull in a manner that causes the balance of the body to go out of sync

its quite a simple process to correct things

Keep me up to date, please

Thanks

TheEd

[wookie]

wookie .. there truthfully seems to be an 'alignment' problem at the moment and you may struggle a great deal if you don't get these things checked and sorted before you start training vigorously.

any good physio or even personal trainer at a gym should be able to check leg discrepancy .. what happens during training is that muscles tighten and begin to pull in a manner that causes the balance of the body to go out of sync

its quite a simple process to correct things

Keep me up to date, please

Thanks

TheEd

For sure,

I'll update you on what happens. I'll find a physio to check my leg discrepancy, see what they say. I've been enjoying the pool again and yoga. As of tomorrow (Tuesday) it'll have been two weeks since my last run. I'm going to run tomorrow, and get into two weeks of running before the 4k. In the meantime I'll keep at my back exercises, ab exercises, yoga and go see a physio.

Thanks