Post injury - wanting sub 40min

[dale_8888]

Ok, well the Fartlek did feel good, but I'll slow it down a bit next time.

Mar 31 - Race - Did the sprint tri. The bike course was really tough with hills that caused my cadence to drop to 55RPM as I was trying to keep my HR below 170. I held back a lot in the ride because of this to save my legs for the run as you keep suggesting. My av HR for the bike was 165 even thought the first 8km av would have been about 168. My HR is always really high after T1.

Run...

km pace av HR max HR
1 | 4:13 | 175 | 179
2 | 4:28 | 176 | 179
3 | 4:24 | 177 | 181
4 | 4:31 | 179 | 181
X | 4:22 | 180 | 183

4.84km, 21:17, av pace 4:24, av HR 177.

I was happy with this run as I would have got just under 22min had it gone the extra 160m, I was expecting it to so I saved my legs a touch.

Now towards the next goal - 14km race on 12 Aug.

I am also planning to do a half marathon on 16 Sep, but I am not really concerned with the result, I would just like to look at increasing the mileage slowly, over time in preparation

I will continue your program until I go away next Monday, so I'll get the 2km session in

[dale_8888]

Hey TheEd,

I have been reading a few text books to learn about training, etc. and I have put in some time and effort into working a cycling program around your running program which will hopefully work. If you have any guidance or questions I'd be happy to help/fix the program.

Here it goes: run/cycle

Day 1: 60-70 easy/ seated hill repeats or gear push (lower cadence for force)
Day 2: 30min easy/ 90min easy
Day 3: 5x2k R90/ 60min easy
Day 4: Rest/Rest
Day 5: up to 90min/ up to 3 hrs
Day 6: easy 30min/ 4x6min R120
Day 7: easy 10km/ easy 60min
Day 8: 6x1k R60/ easy 60min
Day 9: easy 30min/ easy 60min
Day 10: easy 60min/ 5x5km R5min
Day 11: Rest/Rest
Day 12: 5km paced/ up to 3hrs
Day 13: easy 60min/ 30sec spin-ups (high cadence work)
Day 14: easy 30min/ easy 60min
Day 15: 10x400 R60/ easy 60min
Day 16: easy 40min/ easy 90min
Day 17: 30min easy 6x1min fast with 1min slow/ 10x8sec R80
Day 18: Rest/ Rest
Day 19: Race/ Race or Rest
Day 20: easy 30-60min/ easy 60min
Day 21: easy 30min/ easy 60min

[dale_8888]

I'd just like to start by acknowledging my severe distaste for Garmin. To start with the GPS wasn't working at all and then the HR data just went mental. It's so hard to relax and enjoy the run when all you want to do is smash the thing with the world's biggest hammer!!! ARGH!!!!!!

Enough ranting. Did 60min recovery

km pace av HR max HR
1 | 8:00 | 137 | 155 - actually covered about 1.3 I or so I think.
2 | 6:17 | 142 | XXX
3 | 6:36 | XXX | XXX --- I HATE GARMIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4 | 6:26 | XXX | XXX --- RAGE!!!!!!
5 | 6:21 | XXX | XXX
6 | 6:25 | XXX | XXX
7 | 6:28 | 141 | 145
8 | 6:21 | 143 | 146
9 | 6:26 | 143 | 146
X | 6:19 | 145 | 149

9.2km, 60:36, 6:35/km, HR data irrelevant!

For the brief sections it did read correctly it was hovering around 140-142 for the most part (I think).

[TheEd]

Hi Dale, I have mentioned that I shall be able to formulate a balanced program for you including both swimming and running with the 10k program but will need you to accept that it could feel too easy at first

once you get the basics of the balance right then we able to develop upon that

the running quality stays the same and with the swimming and cycling it is all about technique development

Cheers

TheEd
ps.. I thinks a number of heart rate monitors do go on the blink sometimes

[dale_8888]

Hey TheEd,

I am willing to give it a crack. The easy running at the moment is a little frustrating as it is so slow with the HR however I know that it will develop over time, so I will give it that time to develop!

Once I get back in May I'll give your program a crack however I am fully committed to the running now (want my sub 40min!!!) and I will be very limited on time being on course and what not. So, (hopefully) I will have enough time to do everything but I was still going to follow the running to a T.

I feel like I am not doing enough these days. I was doing ~18hr training weeks before and now I am doing around 6 with the running however I still feel like I am getting slower. This is why I feel like doing more as 6hrs per week training is light on for what I am used to.

Anyway, today's easy run I did on a treadmill, 1% gradient, just left it at 6:31/km as I know that is roughly where I end up anyway.

km pace av HR max HR
1 | 6:31 | 136 | 149
2 | 6:31 | 141 | 145
3 | 6:31 | 141 | 148
4 | 6:31 | 142 | 146
X | 6:31 | 143 | 148

4.62km, 30:07, av HR 140.

[sirchimp]

Hey Dale...I've been following your thread, and I too used to have issues with having to run 'too slow' to maintain an acceptable heart rate. I understand that frustration.

However, looking back over your past runs, you appear to show at least one instance of a max HR of at least 194....do you happen to know what your max HR is?

On my heart rate monitor, i've seen 183 at the end of a really tough session...and by using the various calculations I calculate a max HR of between 183-189....though, since i've never seen it above 183 i suspect its closer to that....

Which means that If we're both trying to run our easy runs at 140bpm....one of us is either running too easy, or too hard....

TheEd...what do you think? Am I running too hard for my easy runs at 140? Or could Dale bump up his HR for the easy runs? If his Max is 194 vs my 183....and 140 is right for me, the equivalent PERCENTAGE for dale would be 148bpm....

Or should we really look at our Heart Rate Reserve? Max HR - Resting HR? And work off of that? I've read briefly about that, but don't know much...

In summary - I would like to know how to determine as precisely as possible what that 'easy run' heart rate should be.

Regards,

[Albert83BCN]

Hi training mates

I'm also interested in the HR stuff. In 10K races I was running between 181-183 avg HR on most races at full effort, now maybe because of the training or the aging two years after I find myself running with same effort at between 178-181. Max peaks on race are maybe at 186 and while doing very fast intervals with max effort I can even see as much as 190-194 bpm or higher on the Garmin for a very few seconds. I feel like lactate threshold for me starts at more or less 174 bpm by perceived effort on my trainings. Running somewhat hard on hills puts my HR to 186 or so quite easily also. So I wonder what my real max HR will be? If my Garmin ever told me that I reached 204 even for a very little fraction of time, should I account this for my max HR? Or should it be the max I see on a fast run or intervals at hard pace but not near sprint for a sustained time? (since I think the Garmin -and also the Polar did- becomes crazy about the HR at such paces)

[TheEd]

Albert, once you roll towards the 10k sessions the feedback of pulse ranges from the 2k and 1k sessions will be very handy for the future

TheEd

[dale_8888]

A note on the heart rates. I have noticed that I am not as fit now as I was my max HR is increasing. I never used to be able to get it above 184, now it's about 189 that I top out.

TheEd,
I didn't do the easy 30min today and I don't think I'll be doing the 2km tomorrow as my hip decided to get very painful yesterday during my run and I iced it, deep-heated multiple times and it is being a pest. I was thinking as Friday is a 'Rest' day, can I rest tomorrow and do the 2km on Friday if I'm feeling up to it?

[TheEd]

...

what must be realised is that you are all new to the cycles and whereas 140 may seem slow for some there is a major reason to the session for long-term development

and with the development, the athlete doesn't even concern themselves with the 140bpm during the session as their overall pace per km has improved, even though this would have been considered quite slow previously.

the rule of thumb focused on easy runs at 1 minute per k slower than current 10k pace .. for the 90 minutes and longer we added to 20 to 30 seconds per k for good measure

there is a lot more to the programs and the process behind them however being online and not '1 on 1' makes it more difficult to put certain aspects across.

Give yourself time and you shall answer many of your own questions via the programs

Cheers

TheEd
ps.. this would have been TheEd 26 years ago where the slowest runner in the group was sub 32 minutes
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