Sub 40min 10k

[Chris.C]

First of all, thanks again for setting my account up, I can finally seek advice:notw:

I used to live in the UK and all I ever used running for was as an addition to my martial art training. I moved over to Sweden end of 2008 and slowly over the years got more and more into my running, mainly due to the sceneray and running through forests all time of the year is a big plus point for me.

I have had my 10k at around 42min and now I wish to puch and get this below, Ive had a look at the training programme and a little confused? You really run that often and that distance regular?

I recently went through the Nike + coach programme for running a 10k, this was over 12 weeks and I used it as a guide run the spring cross event, which is a 12k cross country here in Sweden. Now I have the bug to run in competitions, I learnt the mistake of starting from the back, i just thought everyone else looked too professional.

So my aim is to run a fast 10k, so i can justify getting near the front, thats my goal. Where I live, is quite hilly, Ive used my garmin for some time, so hopefully have some good data if required.

Ive heard of the Meffatone running technique, but I would find this a struggle with the hills etc. I also, weight train, 3 times a week (M,W,F), so thats my mornings taken care of.

Ideal running days would be Tue, Thur and weekend?

Your guidance is much appreciatted?

[TheEd]

Hi Chris .. great .. and welcome to the forums

if we don't have a current 10k or 5k time to work off, a 4k time-trial is recommended .. if you do the 4k then provide the heart rate feedback as well.

Do note, the program's most important training cycle is during Day 3 to day 8 .. most of the quality and core of the program is placed within that period

During this period be careful not to over do things with the weight training and other activities

day 3 is best placed on a Thursday ..

any thoughts so far?

Cheers and enjoy

TheEd
ps.. please elaborate on what is confusing you regarding the training program? Regarding amount of running

[Chris.C]

Sure, thats my error. Only giving half the information

On the training programme, is states 3 runs (Day1,2,3) and then one day of rest, then back on daily for 6 days before rest again? Is it normal to run this often?

On the interval, start with 5x2k R90 7min 50 (3.55 per k) T ( I may be a bit slow but dont fully understand this) im guessing 5 intervals of 2k, with a pace of 3.55 a k, Is 90 the rest time? but whats the 7min 50? or is this the rest period. But then using this same for Day 15
start with 10 x 400m R 60 400/86sec – no faster P Not fully aware of what this fully means?

Last dead on 5k (Not flat)
Time: 20:50
Moving Time: 20:30
Elapsed Time: 21:24
Avg Pace: 4:10 min/km
Avg Moving Pace: 4:06 min/km
Best Pace: 2:54 min/km


Typically, heart rate not on for some reason!

attempt before that one

Time: 21:00
Moving Time: 20:37
Elapsed Time: 21:47
Avg Pace: 4:12 min/km
Avg Moving Pace: 4:07 min/km
Best Pace: 2:42 min/km

Heart Rate
Avg HR: 162 bpm
Max HR: 177 bpm

The last 10km I have is a very hilly one


Time: 48:16
Moving Time: 47:50
Elapsed Time: 48:16
Avg Pace: 4:50 min/km
Avg Moving Pace: 4:47 min/km
Best Pace: 3:11 min/km


Avg HR: 163 bpm
Max HR: 173 bpm

Closest I have to a 4km, is 3.6

Time: 15:46
Moving Time: 15:35
Elapsed Time: 15:47
Avg Pace: 4:23 min/km
Avg Moving Pace: 4:20 min/km
Best Pace: 3:09 min/km


Avg HR: 158 bpm
Max HR: 171 bpm

The event last Saturday (Not starting from so back agian )
Spring Cross

Time: 1:02:59

Distance: 11.81 km
Time: 1:02:59
Avg Pace: 5:20 min/km
Elevation Gain: 137 m

Moving Time: 1:02:32
Elapsed Time: 1:03:00
Avg Pace: 5:20 min/km
Avg Moving Pace: 5:18 min/km
Best Pace: 2:45 min/km

Avg HR: 170 bpm
Max HR: 188 bpm

If you need any more info do not hesitate, Ive had the garmin for a while!

I did add the links to each read out, but Im not up to 10 posts yet, so it wont allow me

Thanks Again

Chris

[TheEd]

OK .. I shall work my way through the data

yes, athletes do train that often, some train twice a day and then you get the elite who train 3 times a day

the most important part of the cycle is day 3 to day 8 .. so if you able to adapt to that workload then it would be beneficial

we can change the program around to adapt to you however you need to provide feedback to see how the adaptation is going

90 = Rest time .. 7 min 50 = 3.55 x 2

T stands for 10k session

the 10 x 400m session is prescribed to be run on a tartan track if possible .. do the pace accordingly and not faster .. p = 3k pace

now your pace from the 5k run would be better off for you to consider starting at 4.10 to 4.15 per k for the 2k session

5 x 2k Rest 90 seconds .. pace = 8.20 to 8.30 per 2k

6 x 1k Rest 60 seconds .. pace 4 minutes to 4.15 per k

400m pace = 3.50 to 3.55 per k per 400m 92 to 94 seconds

hope this is clear and easy to understand

TheEd

Sure, thats my error. Only giving half the information

On the training programme, is states 3 runs (Day1,2,3) and then one day of rest, then back on daily for 6 days before rest again? Is it normal to run this often?

On the interval, start with 5x2k R90 7min 50 (3.55 per k) T ( I may be a bit slow but dont fully understand this) im guessing 5 intervals of 2k, with a pace of 3.55 a k, Is 90 the rest time? but whats the 7min 50? or is this the rest period. But then using this same for Day 15
start with 10 x 400m R 60 400/86sec – no faster P Not fully aware of what this fully means?

[Chris.C]

Thank you!

When in UK, I used to train that often, but that was because I was fighting. I guess I have to kick myself up the ass if want to achieve my goal.

My current weight routine is
Mon 6am Weight training - Work and then back home at 19:00
Wed 6am Weight training - Work and then back home at 19:00
Fri - Work - Weight training from 18:00 until 19:30

I have previously fitted my runs inbetween or even on the same day as above, but have to avoid Monday as thats my legs day (For next 8weeks at least), yes I can and have trained on that day, but its not my preferred option.

Thank you for the explanation, it has cleared things up. There is no track area near me Im afraid, running tracks are out in the forests. I can go try and source a flatter area for that day.

Thanks again, really appreciatte this, and I will give feedback. Im currently on a running hiatus after the race on Sarturday, as it was pretty full on for last 12 weeks, Im aiming to start next week.

Thanks

Chris

[TheEd]

OK .. great .. during the first cycle consider backing off from doing a heavy routine with the weights during the days 3 to 8

for the 400m session, this can be changed to a fartlek session which is similar in nature and this can be done on

consider starting Day 1 on Tuesday next week, if possible

cheers till next week

TheEd

[Chris.C]

I agree, I think the fartlek session may be more suitable, especially where I live.

Just one last question as Im gearing up ready to start on Tuesday, the first day says 60 - 70 min of an easy distance run, to me 60min run would be around 12-13k, am I right to think I just go at a slower pace, reducing my heart rate so inturn it may be 10k in the end?

This is probably a really dumb question, but Im new to running training, so Im in the dark, I used to go out and do intervals etc. I think its the easy distance phrase that has thrown me!

[TheEd]

Hi Chris .. the easy run focuses on recovery .. and can be best achieved by doing the 'talk test'

if you have a heart rate monitor .. then in this instance .. most (on average) runners run around 140 bpm .. currently we do not have an accurate heart training range for you

the quality days between 3 to 8 are the important days, while adapting to the cycles, keeping the easy runs, 'easy' .. is most important in the pursuit of avoiding injuries and or other problems

hope this helps

TheEd

[Chris.C]

Ahhh, according to the garmin site, my average over the year can fluctuate between 150-160.

I know when I run its around 160 and expect to hit just over 170 when on hills.

(Hopefully Ive reached around10posts, so if you want a link to a run, hopefully I can)

[TheEd]

you can copy & paste the data in here, then it is on hand within the thread and will be easier to go through and refer back to

look to do 140 bpm for your easy running

and yes, it will seem very slow but it is needed for developing in the right direction

TheEd