10k training - how fast can i get in 5 months?

[sirchimp]

Hey Ed...heres the results of my last 3 days:

Easy 30min - finished the 6th km...was feeling tired/heavy legs. I had done some weight lifting (squats,bench,deadlifts), which may have contributed...?
Tread Mill - 1%
km | time | avg HR | max HR
1 | 5:35.1 | 131 | 141
2 | 5:27.1 | 144 | 146
3 | 5:27.1 | 147 | 148
4 | 5:26.0 | 149 | 151
5 | 5:26.5 | 152 | 155
6 | 5:28.5 | 155 | 157
32:50.3

Easy 30 min - felt good during this, so pushed it to 7km
Tread Mill - 1%
km | time | avg HR | max HR
1 | 6:04.9 | 118 | 134
2 | 5:26.9 | 137 | 139
3 | 5:27.8 | 142 | 145
4 | 5:26.9 | 145 | 147
5 | 5:26.9 | 146 | 149
6 | 5:26.9 | 148 | 150
7 | 5:27.7 | 148 | 150
38:48

6x1km Intervals. I wanted to start about 3:56-57 / km and up it from there. however, I ended up keeping it there until the last one. Looking back at the previous 6x1km session, THIS one saw a LOWER heart rate...so i think i had a bit more to give. However, my perceived effort felt like this session was harder than the last.

Treadmill @ 1% incline
KM | time | AHR | MHR
1 | 3:56.7 | 147 | 159
Rest: 60.6s + 26.5(rampdown/up): HR: 159 - 121
2 | 3:56.7 | 155 | 164
Rest: 61.9s + 27.1(rampdown/up): HR: 164 - 126
3 | 3:56.0 | 158 | 168
Rest: 60.9s + 26.9(rampdown/up): HR: 168 - 136
4 | 3:56.8 | 162 | 171
Rest: 60.9s + 28.2(rampdown/up): HR: 171 - 144
5 | 3:57.1 | 165 | 174
Rest: 60.7s + 26.1(rampdown/up): HR: 174 - 149
6 | 3:50.6 | 170 | 178
Rest: 60.4 + 12.5(rampdown only): HR: 178 - 169

Overall I improved on my previous session with a slight avg increase in speed. My last interval was slower than my previous last, but i think its simply because i didn't up to speed fast enough. Based on my HR, I had more to give there...should have just upped it a bit sooner...

Reasonably pleased...I think I might make it harder on myself next time by eliminating the rampup/down part of the treadmill....I'll just jump off to the sides when i finish a set, pause it...then jump back on and start my timer after 60s when it ramps up to about 10kph...(still slow enough its easy to jump back on). As it stands now I'm kinda stealing an extra 20s+ of rest during the slow down and speed up phases.

Some easy running the next couple days. I'm hoping to get your thoughts on running these 30,40,60,90,120 min runs and what heart rate to target, and how to target it considering heart rate drift during the run.

Regards,

[TheEd]

I had done some weight lifting (squats,bench,deadlifts), which may have contributed...?

Getting these sessions right so they do not impact on your sessions is most important

and yes, the session will definitely contribute

overall are you feeling OK?

Cheers

TheEd

[sirchimp]

Hey Ed...overall feeling good. The sessions where I weight lift prior to running are (now) all just the easy runs. It doesn't really increase my perceived effort by much, but it does seem my heart rate is higher...since it doesn't FEEL more difficult, i figure its not a big deal.


Whats your thoughts on running these 30,40,60,90min runs at a specific heart rate? And how to deal with heart rate drift? IE - if I am to target 140HR during a 90min run, If I start at 140 for the first 10 min, that will drift to 160 (at the same speed/effort) by the end of 90 minutes. So should I be running slower? Or is that ok? I'm not sure if I'm being clear on this question...

Regards

[TheEd]

for the 90 minutes and especially while developing it is best to keep the pulse closer to 140

once you adapt to the pulse range of 140 and you develop further your pace at 140 bpm will pick up

this takes a little getting used to but is well worth putting into practise

as you develop you will be running per distance and not as per time, so you need to get good practises in place

please ask further questions for more clarity

Cheers

TheEd

[sirchimp]

Ok, 140 makes sense. But the second part of my question involes heart rate drift. IE the way the heart rate goes up over time if i continue to run at the same pace.

Should I:

a) Start at a pace that sees my pulse at 140, then as the pulse rises, SLOW DOWN so my pulse stays at 140? This will see me start out quick, and then slow down slower and slower until the end of the run.

b) maintain a pace such that my heart rate is say...130 at the beginning, but ends at 150, so my average was 140?

c) maintain a pace such that my heart rate ENDS at 140 after the 90 minutes?

I hope that is clear what I'm asking...

By way of example, I ran 7km today at an easy 11kph steady (except for the first km which had a bit of wlaking and rampup to 11kph midway):

Tread Mill - 1%
km | time | avg HR | max HR
1 | 6:03.0 | 117 | 133
2 | 5:26.8 | 132 | 135
3 | 5:26.7 | 136 | 140
4 | 5:26.9 | 138 | 140
5 | 5:27.8 | 140 | 142
6 | 5:27.2 | 142 | 145
7 | 5:26.2 | 145 | 148
38:44.6

My AVERAGE heart rate for the time period was 135. I started lower than that, and ended higher. If I was targeting 135, did i get it right? Or did i start too slow and end too fast? Or...?

Thanks! Been wondering about this for awhile. As a note, my run today felt good...probably the lowest perceived effort 'easy' run at 11kph...

Regards

[TheEd]

sorry for missing the 2nd part ..

the first 10 to 15 minutes try to keep the pulse lower, venture out at around 135 bpm, thereafter try to keep the pulse as close to 140 bpm

as mentioned the pace will become quicker at the same pulse as you develop

this is all about being progressive with your development and at a later time you will have sessions where you end the last 20 minutes of a run at 165 bpm

this should come with progression

for now keep everything easy

onwards and forwards

TheEd

[sirchimp]

Great...i'll aim to keep it at 140 then...I'll have to slow down in the later part of the run, but thats ok i guess...

When do you prescribe the last 20min @ 165bpm fun?

[sirchimp]

How does this look for keeping my HR around 140:
Tread Mill - 1%
km | time | avg HR | max HR
1 | 6:02.4 | 116 | 132
2 | 5:26.8 | 132 | 135
3 | 5:26.7 | 134 | 138
4 | 5:27.0 | 136 | 139
5 | 5:28.7 | 139 | 142
6 | 5:37.8 | 139 | 141
7 | 5:45.8 | 139 | 141
8 | 5:52.9 | 140 | 142
9 | 5:59.7 | 139 | 141
10 | 6:06.9 | 138 | 140
11 | 6:14.5 | 137 | 139
Total:1:03:29
135/142 ahr/mhr

Started out at 11kph....when my HR hit 141 I dialed the speed down 0.3kph...had to do it a few times, but basically kept my HR no higher than 140...

Reasonable?

Regards

[TheEd]

seems reasonable but how did you feel?

TheEd

[sirchimp]

It felt easy - which i suppose is the point. Easier than the runs where i just maintain the same pace (and my HR keeps drifting up).

A little frustrating to have to slow down as the run goes on, but if its for a good cause thats ok

...And you promise I'll be running 36min/10k in 3 months by sticking to this plan?