sub 35min after marathon training

[TheEd]

D consider doing the quality session around Thursday (6x1000m) to give yourself a little more recovery and to put in a slightly longer run on Tuesday instead .. 1hr or 15km depending on how you feel

here's hoping the weather starts getting better

TheEd
ps.. happy new year

[derele]

Hi TheEd,

happy new year to you!

Here are he splits for yesterday's race, I still want to learn
something from it. Thought a lot about what I did different in race
preparation...

| Time | Avg HR | Max HR |
| 00:03:20 | 160 | 170 | * first 800m snow free
| 00:03:46 | 170 | 172 |
| 00:03:47 | 172 | 174 |
| 00:03:49 | 172 | 174 |
| 00:03:49 | 173 | 175 |
| 00:03:54 | 174 | 176 |
| 00:03:47 | 175 | 177 |
| 00:04:37 | 169 | 177 |
| 00:04:55 | 139 | 148 |
| 00:04:19 | 156 | 166 |
| 00:40:09 | 165 | 177 |

I don't think I over-paced, the guy who took the 3rd has a 34 PB. I
have still a moderate stitch in the side today. Will go to the doc on
Monday if it persists to rule out that it is something serious.

I will see how I recover, I have an appointment for a test-session at
a gym on Tuesday (doing this at different gyms is how I try to get
over the winter, but there are some gyms left if I have to wait till
Thursday :whistle.

Weather for the race on 9th should be very fine here, if the forecast is right.

derele

[TheEd]

derele the only new aspect may be-- the core strength training

maybe fatigued andominals has played a role?

though the conditions didn't help much either

hope everything clears up soon
TheEd

[derele]

Yeah, thought about that. But I did no core-strength session two days before the race.
I have to stay alert to the problem in future races, but I still hope it only occured due to the unusual ground-conditions.

derele

[derele]

Hi TheEd,

had to cancel the Intervall session and to replace it with a second medium-hard medium-long run: did 22k@4:30 on partly ice and snow covered roads.
Not exactly what I should and want do regarding my recent results.

The snow is melting away quickly and I am looking forward to the 15k race is on Sunday.

I have a whole year of running recorded now, here are 52 weeks:

Time-Period No. Runs Distance Time Avg Speed Max Avg Speed
01/03/2011 4 45,29 03:42:21 12,2 12,9
12/27/2010 6 74,08 06:09:04 12,0 14,9
12/20/2010 11 113,46 08:46:17 12,9 16,2
12/13/2010 11 110,44 08:57:09 12,3 15,6
12/06/2010 9 74,02 05:39:06 13,1 17,2
11/29/2010 10 85,93 06:42:04 12,8 17,0
11/22/2010 9 88,19 07:05:32 12,4 13,6
11/15/2010 10 78,35 06:13:32 12,6 13,9
11/08/2010 10 108,63 08:35:25 12,6 13,8
11/01/2010 5 49,65 03:42:43 13,4 16,9
10/25/2010 11 90,44 07:36:14 11,9 16,3
10/18/2010 7 94,46 07:55:17 11,9 13,0
10/11/2010 10 79,30 06:10:57 12,8 16,3
10/04/2010 5 48,32 04:24:59 10,9 12,3
09/27/2010 12 81,44 08:07:23 10,0 15,7
09/20/2010 6 36,52 03:23:20 10,8 11,7
09/13/2010 6 92,88 07:13:00 12,9 14,9
09/06/2010 11 110,19 10:24:32 10,6 14,9
08/30/2010 6 75,82 07:08:26 10,6 11,7
08/23/2010 10 100,40 09:31:50 10,5 13,6
08/16/2010 10 123,58 11:11:44 11,0 12,6
08/09/2010 12 119,17 09:58:13 12,0 15,8
08/02/2010 10 145,61 12:51:02 11,3 12,7
07/26/2010 7 101,83 09:18:29 10,9 14,1
07/19/2010 6 70,66 06:35:19 10,7 11,8
07/12/2010 13 120,03 11:07:21 10,8 14,3
07/05/2010 10 123,86 11:13:38 11,0 13,3
06/28/2010 4 59,71 05:16:17 11,3 12,2
06/21/2010 6 87,52 08:14:09 10,6 14,2
06/14/2010 11 133,23 12:55:52 10,3 11,6
06/07/2010 9 133,55 12:41:01 10,5 13,4
05/31/2010 5 58,51 05:40:26 10,3 14,1
05/24/2010 10 132,01 11:59:37 11,0 16,2
05/17/2010 7 101,97 09:38:06 10,6 12,1
05/10/2010 2 37,73 03:18:49 11,4 11,6
05/03/2010 4 47,36 03:56:27 12,0 15,6
04/26/2010 7 63,29 06:08:16 10,3 11,2
04/19/2010 9 77,48 07:22:53 10,5 12,1
04/12/2010 7 62,07 06:15:12 9,9 11,0
04/05/2010 8 68,07 06:22:48 10,7 12,6
03/29/2010 7 59,57 05:28:37 10,9 12,3
03/22/2010 2 20,54 01:58:53 10,4 10,6
03/15/2010 1 13,25 01:09:47 11,4 11,4
03/08/2010 2 21,08 01:32:44 13,6 15,1
03/01/2010 3 31,10 02:53:47 10,7 12,7
02/22/2010 3 41,69 03:43:34 11,2 11,5
02/15/2010 2 25,79 02:21:38 10,9 11,0
02/08/2010 3 32,31 03:08:51 10,3 11,2
02/01/2010 3 45,34 03:41:55 12,3 14,2
01/25/2010 3 43,63 03:51:11 11,3 11,9
01/18/2010 6 48,70 04:17:34 11,3 14,3
01/11/2010 3 40,92 03:48:55 10,7 12,8
01/04/2010 1 15,00 01:07:17 13,4 13,4
Summary 365 3.943,95 348:39:57 11,3 17,2

derele

[TheEd]

here's hoping that we are able to establish normal training patterns soon

will browse through your data

TheEd

[derele]

Hi TheEd,

all a bit too slow for 10k training would be my guess...
The Paris marathon on April 10 is already taking over most of my thoughts. I am currently having two kind-of-low-distance-low-intensity-weeks. Afterwards I want to fade your schedule slowly into my marathon schedule.
I will train on that schedule for 8 weeks before the M (starting on Feb 13th) and use the remaining 5 weeks as a transition period. The M-schedule will be quite simple:

Mo: 15k easy1
Tue: 10k or 15k (alternating weeks) at 10k pace +6-12s or +12-18s
We: 15k easy1
Thu: 6x1k, 4x2k or 3x3k (alternating) at 3:15, 3:25 or 3:30 very long Rests
Fri: 10k easy1
Sat: 10k easy2
Sun: 35k (speed-up to M-pace on progressingly longer distance at the end)

Plus easy 8-10k am runs from Mo to Fri.
easy1 will be ~4:45, easy2 ~4:20

The schedule is ultra-hard, but I am very keen on training at the edge again. I will have to listen to my body and skip or slow down workouts in case of problems.
For the easy runs I am already in the right HR zones for the schedule to work towards sub 2:40 (70%max at 4:35).

For the first week of the transition starting tomorrow:

Sun: 15k race ~ 53min
Mon: 15k easy
Tue: 12k easy
Wed: 18k easy
Thu: 5x2k in 6:50 R120
Fri: 10k easy
Sat: Rest
Sun: 27k easy

Quite similar to the sub35 10k schedule, but I think I will need longer rests once I start doing a second (TP) workout each week and longer long runs... will start to introduce them.

I will post the next week in time, I want to build up the Tue TP-run starting from 5k...

derele

[TheEd]

will take a peek to see how the marathon training works out as I have plans to introduce a marathon program based on the 10km schedule but changing to solid marathon training 6 weeks before the race but during the 10km .. 30km training runs on weekends become the norm

Cheers

TheEd
ps.. the 90 second Rest is of more value even if you slow it to 6.55 for the 2k for example

[derele]

Hi TheEd,

the long rests worked well for me during my last marathon training (10k coming down from 40 to 37), although improvement on this level could as well have come from general improvement of aerobic abilities.

One aspect of your program I really learned to like is that the short-rest intrevals make them feel somehow intermediate between TP-runs and long-rest intervals. My guess is, this is why one can get good results from your program having only one and a half speedy session per week.
Doing 2 speedy plus a long session every week only works with less racing (i.e in non-race weeks). If I have two speed sessions I feel it makes more sense for them to provide more diverse stimuli, therefore TP-run and long rest intervals.

Maybe I will do the 5x2k on Friday next week. This would probably allow me recover from the 15k well enough to be ready for short rests.

My schedule is adopted from German marathon coach Peter Greif (his free 8-week "countdown" schedule) . It is usually thought to be a very tough, kind of "make it or breake it". I think I can manage to not break down my body, carefully listening to it. Maybe I can do short-rest intervals in those weeks I don't feel ready for two speed sessions... kind of merging TP-run and interval session.

I will keep providing feedback on my training even if I don't exactly stick to your schedule, I would feel delighted if I could provide some data points as input for your marathon schedule.

derele

[derele]

Hi TheEd,

just came home from a good 15k race:

| Split | Time | Avg HR | Max HR |
| 1 | 00:03:25 | 152 | 162 |
| 2 | 00:03:30 | 160 | 163 |
| 3 | 00:03:35 | 164 | 168 |
| 4 | 00:03:32 | 167 | 170 |
| 5 | 00:03:33 | 168 | 169 |
| 6 | 00:03:29 | 170 | 172 |
| 7 | 00:03:33 | 170 | 173 |
| 8 | 00:03:29 | 172 | 173 |
| 9 | 00:03:34 | 172 | 173 |
| 10 | 00:03:30 | 172 | 174 |
| 11 | 00:03:34 | 172 | 174 |
| 12 | 00:03:34 | 173 | 174 |
| 13 | 00:03:41 | 173 | 176 |
| 14 | 00:03:36 | 174 | 175 |
| 15 | 00:03:13 | 176 | 180 |
| Summary | 00:52:56 | 169 | 180 |


Passed 10k at 35:10 (only 2s from my 10k PB from 4 weeks ago) and lost
only additional 11s on a 3:30 pace on the last 5k (official time was
52:51). I also managed to follow one of my new year's resolutions to
fight for each position. The watch distance-measure was not 100%
correct and the last split is not really that fast but I still managed
to run at least a 3:25 on the last k and to beat german cycling legend
Udo Bölts (34 min in the 10k) on the last meters.
Sub 1:12 in the 20k and I will have a sub 2:40 in the series!

derele