sub 35min after marathon training

[derele]

Hi there,

I found some great advice here looking at your sub 35 min training schedule and reading some of the related threads in the forum. So here is my "story", I would be very happy about your feedback and help adjusting your schedules to my needs.

I am running for approx. 9 month, after playing soccer for all my life before (almost 25 yerars). Other info just in bullet points:
-Age: 29
-Weight: 79 kg
-Height: 183 cm
-Rest HR: 48 bpm
-Max HR: 191 bpm
-HR monitor: Garmin Forerunner 405 (having my runs online if you want to take a look)

Race times (all races I ever ran):
Jan 2010: 10km -- 42:36
Feb 2010: 15km -- 1:05:23
Mach 2010: 20km -- 1:24:07
*Start of periode outlined below
Mai 2010: 10km -- 37:21
Aug 2010: 21,1km(hilly) -- 1:19:57

* I am training since April for a marathon at Sep 19. Following a self-made schedule, in which a typical week at the moment looks like this


Mo: am. 10km (4:00min/km) pm. 7km (6:30min/km)
Tue: am. 7km (5:30min/km) pm. 20km (5:15min/km)
We: am. 7km (6.00min/km) pm. intervalls (3x3km in 3:55; 4x2km in 3:45; 6x1km in 3:35, very long rests)
Thu: am 7km (6:30min/km) pm. 7km (5:20min/km)
Fri: am 7km (5:30min/km) pm. 10km (5:10min/km)
Sa: 35km (in 6 weeks before Marathon with speed up to marathon-pace on the last 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 0 km)
Su. am 3km(6:00min/km) pm. 10km(6:00min/km)

total ca. 130km.
It took me 3 month to conditon my body for the mileage (April -Jun), at the moment I am running 3 out of 4 weeks a month like outlined above, 1 of 4 weeks with reduced speedwork, but same mileage. My body seems to need the very, very slow paced runs, if I don't do them (or try to do them faster) I get injury-problems.

I will run my sub 3hr marathon (maybe even sub 2:55) in 3 weeks. Afterwards I want to concentrate on 10km races over the winter and possibly beat the 35min before 2011.

I want to strart the sub 35 10km schedule a week after my marathon. [1] How should I plan recovery in between?
11 days (30. Sep) after the marathon I will have a 6km fun-race, I could use it for my 4km time-trial ([2] or is this to close after the marathon)?

[3] What adaptions could I make to the 10k program once I start it?
I want to keep most of the runs twice a day, as they are my way to get to the University (where I work) and I feel it is the best way to integrate running into my life (also they are time-neutral, as public transport would take as long as running). But taking the bike twice a week would also be okay...

At the moment I have the biggest problems with the speed-sessions, they are 5s too slow for what I consider my actual abilities and the rests are 5-7min between repetitions. I feel that I would injure myself if I would go faster or take shorter rests...
[4] How to best cut down the rest-time? Start next rep as soon as my HR drops below 130? 140?

Still a month to go before I want to start the 10k schedule, I am posting this now because you could probably give me [5] advice on how to reorganize my Marathon schedule above to lead smoothly to the 10k (although my progress seems good and I don't want to change too much).

Thanks a lot in advance!

P.S. I just realized how much I have written and decided to structure my text a bit more by numbering the questions like [1]...

[TheEd]

Hi derele and welcome to the forums

first off, coming down to 37 minutes for 10km would allow me to say there is a very definite opportunity to achieve sub 35 minutes

the number one thing to mention now is that we should first get the marathon behind you and you should be in no rush to get back to training for a fast 10km but then this will be determined by you recovery

as for your recovery, in the 'old' days it was always consider best to reverse the last 14 days on your count down to the marathon. So depending on what this routine is, you could likely reverse it as a recovery

once you return from the marathon I shall work with you to incorporate the sub 35 minute 10km program comfortably

the program actually does allow for doubles as well as longer long runs but we only incorporate such things after the athlete has gone through a few cycles and then does the build up program

the major reasoning behind this is to avoid injuries as well as know that the athlete has achieved consistent training using the cycles correctly

take a look at the program tips for mentioning of the am runs

good luck for the marathon and chat soon

TheEd

[derele]

Hi TheEd,

thanks for your reply! You are absolutely right I should get the marathon behind me first! I will post here in 3 weeks how the 42,2km went and will provide information on how my recovery feels.

I will also have a lot of new questions then! I already have a racing schedule for autumn in mind... it's just so much fun at the moment, I feel as if I had grown wings :laugh:

derele

[TheEd]

you have plenty to be excited about and that is certainly the joy about this sport, that one can test themselves in such a simply way yet receive so much pleasure from the work ethic involved

which marathon are you running?

Cheers

TheEd

[derele]

Karlsruhe Marathon, in my home-town! A flat course (course record 2:09).
I worked in Edinburgh, Scotland over the summer (which was great for training because of the lower temperatures). I will return to Germany for the Marathon and then be there over Winter.

derele

[TheEd]

Karlsruhe Marathon .. interesting .. must read up more about the event

We are involved with the Copenhagen Marathon so if you have runners you know who are interested in May 2011 Copenhagen city marathon then it would be interesting to put a few things together

Scotland more wet than cool

Cheers

TheEd

[derele]

The best thing is that I have my 30th birthday a week before the Karlsruhe marathon. I hope, that all the Kenian professionals will be in mhk (male main category < 30). If so (like last year) M30-35 is the weakest category and could allow me to make it to the age-class-podium with my goal of ~2:57. Last year 3rd place in M30 was 2:59... kind of a shame given the winning time of 2:09.

I know somebody interrested in a spring marathon next year: Me! But sadly end of May is a bit too late. I have some private and work duties in May and will run my second marathon (given that I like the first, and don't get completely hooked on 10k over winter) in March-April 2010. Copenhagen marathon looks interesting, especially as it has a more balanced field.

Cheers
derele

[derele]

Hey!
I finished the Karlsruhe-Marathon on Sunday in 2:51:13. 14th overall and I even won my age category (30-35, which was an easy age category compared to 35-40 or 40-45).
I am hooked on the Marathon and my 10K training over winter will lead via a Half Marathon in March to a second Marathon in April 2011.

For autumn-races this are my plans:

• 09/30 4 miles handicap fun race: I will use this to test how well I am recovering from the marathon
  

• 10/09 5K and 10K: I will try 18min on the 5K and run the 10K afterwards as a pacemaker for a friend in sub 40
  

• 10/17 10K: Sub 36
  

• 11/07 10K: As close as possible to 35
  

• 12/05 10K: Sub 35
  

• 12/31 10K: win the race (last years winner was 34:41 and this was the first foot-race I ever did so it would be a great goal to win it a year after I started racing)
  

In between the last races I will have a proper 3week period, as in your training schedule. The 4 weeks from now on will be a bit less organized with these out of schedule races.

Are these reasonable goals in your opinion? Are they reachable using a version of your sub 35min schedule with additional mileage and additional am runs on 3-5 days a week?

Thanks,
derele

[TheEd]

certainly reasonable goals and hopefully your recovery from the marathon is good and when you return to training you do not run into any complications

TheEd
ps.. congrats on your marathon

[derele]

Thanks!
I will let you know how it goes and what alternations to the sub35 program I am using.

derele