What should i do next?

[niikp]

I'm enjoying reading your info on 10k and i am looking for advice on what to do next. Here is my background.

Age 49
Weight typical 168lbs Height 5'10"
Max HR 180? Resting HR 46 V02 39 Aerobic Thrsh 139? Anae Thrsh 167

Started running July 15th 2014
PST timezone

Only injury was outer left knee in the winter which has cleared through using warmer/longer running gear. Injury free for 6 weeks.

No real schedule, usually run 2/3 times per week, around 5km per run at around 4:40 - 5: 10 pace, with a longer 8-12k run every two weeks.

Best times

Nov 27th 2014 5k 00:23:34 (this was just a training run that felt really good, at hard effort)
Feb 23rd 2015 10k 00:48:47 (this was an attempt to see how fast i could 10k, very hard effort)
Feb 27th 2015 28k 02:50:00 (this was an attempt to see how far i could run, medium effort)

Since 27th i have not felt very energetic during runs, and run 4 times.

Here are the times for the runs above including all since 27th Mar.

Training Form
Date weight lbs Dist km Time Avg Km prj 5Km Avg HR
27th Nov 168 5.07 0:23:54 12.73 0:23:34 165+?
23rd Feb 167 10.37 0:50:35 12.30 0:24:23 166
27th Feb 168 28.06 2:50:00 9.90 0:30:18 156
1st Mar 170 2.51 0:16:12 9.30 0:32:16 145
3rd Mar 170 2.00 0:09:24 12.77 0:23:30 166
7th Ma 170 5.30 0:27:26 11.59 0:25:53 159
9th Mar 170 7.28 0:42:51 10.19 0:29:26 152


I am guessing that my next steps are sub 45mins for 10k, however I would maybe look at 22 mins for 5km instead if possible. I am concerned about running 5 days a week, I have never tried that.

What do you think?

[niikp]

Today I was on day 3 of the sub 45. Remembering that I have already done an ~48.47 10k a couple of weeks ago, I thought I would give the sub 45 a go. Well day 1 and 2 were of course easy ;o)

Day 3 may have been an indicator that i am not ready to sub 45. I tried 4x2k @4.25 pace. I ran 2k @ 4.18 (my Polar M400 gives very wild avg pace so I wasn't aware I was running this quick), then 2k @ 4:32, then I only managed another 1k @ 4:46 and that was it, I was wrecked with still 2.5k to go. I was taking the full 2min break between run just walking.

So that was a bit of a bust. Maybe had I ran the first 2k in 4:25 instead of 4:18 then I may have managed the 3rd 2k at 4:25, but I really don't think I could have managed the 4th 2k at anything other than 4:50-5:00 pace.

Possibly then I should try the sub 50k instead, and try to just be able to consistently run sub 50 easily. However day three (today) would have been 3x2k @ 4.55 which i think would have been a pretty easy day for sure.

I need something in between then, a sub 47 maybe, which would have made today something like a 4x2k @ 4:40, which I probably could manage because my 5k PB is at 4:43 pace.

My HR today was hovering around 172 - 173 coming down to 127 at the end of the 2:00 break.

A side question is this. Is there a formula that shows how increased pace reflects in HR. I suppose this is not at all going to be linear and would differ from runner to runner. Let's say my resting HR is 47 and my Max HR is 185 and that i run 5:00 pace (over say 5k) at avg 163 HR. If I ran again and increased my pace to 4:50 (a 3 % increase) then what would the probable increase in my HR be?

[TheEd]

Apologies for the delay in getting to your post Niikp

welcome to the forums

have you been able to put a 4k time-trial in as a marker

take a look at this: Program Tips

http://www.time-to-run.com/training/10k/programtips.htm

let's do things in little steps

TheEd
ps.. thanks for all the info, will digest it more and more as we go along

[niikp]

Hi Ed, so I went out today and instead of the long run ran the 4k TT on a track as suggested. Here is the data,
An initial 400M @ 7:58 pace to warm up. A brief stop then..

The actual run was 4.03 @ 18:35. @4.0k it was 18:27. HR was AVG 164 MAX 170
Dist Time AVG HR
1k 4:46 153
2k 4:37 164
3k 4:30 168
4k 4:34 168

I walked very slowly around 400 meters and HR was 111.

I am pretty sure I was running the first lap faster than 4:46, the Polar M400 seems to have a bit of an initial lag. I typical go out a little too fast and almost never too slow. But maybe it makes little diff.

Effort 9/10. I would say I could have slowed down to 5:10 pace and done another 1k to get a 5k time of ~23:38, maybe. Which would be about the same as my 5k PB time late Nov 2014.

Looking back through my recent times i did a 1k split in the first 4x2k interval at 4:11, which is my fastest 1k, I'm interested to see if I can run a sub4:00 1k, i think i could.

Feeling good, couple of aches and pains this week, nothing unusual and no knee issues.

[niikp]

Today was easy 30 min run. HR was 46 when I woke this morning (normally 46-7) Data is

Dist Time Pace HR Max/Avg
4.59km 30:04 06:33 151/141

Nice and easy. Tomorrow is the same i guess.

[niikp]

Easy Run yesterday and today.

Date KM Time Pace HR-AVG/Peak/Morning
14th Mar 4.59 30:04 6:33 141/151/46
14th Mar 4.67 30:21 6:29 140/150/46


Slight soreness on inner thigh.

[niikp]

Well today was interesting, how not to use the lap button on an Polar M400.

Here are the slightly bizarre results.

Morning resting HR 46

Date KM Time Pace HR-AVG/Peak/Rest
(warmup)Mar 16 900M 6:00 6:37 144/155/94
5x1k
Mar 16 900M 3:51 4:17 157/165/110
Mar 16 900M 3:51 4:18 161/169/123
Mar 16 900M 3:48 4:14 163/171/130
Mar 16 900M 3:52 4:18 166/172/127
Mar 16 900M 3:52 4:18 166/172/ After 3mins HR is 109

Why 900M, well I thought the auto lap was running from my manual lap up until 1km, it wasn't, so the autolap was including my 90sec rest walk, which meant the run was short of 1km by the rest walk. Bit of a mess but still pretty pleased with the result.

I would like to think that I could have hung on for the extra 100M per lap, but I assume it would affect the time come the 5th lap. I certainly could not have ran a 6th lap at anywhere near that pace.

One thing of interest was Max HR. On the 4th and 5th lap the HR graph shows a plateau of 172, the HR steadily rises up until it hits 172 then stays there until i complete the lap. This effect began around 2/3rds into the lap, my MAX HR has been way higher than this @ >185

Effort at the end was 9/10, I know that had someone ran beside me then i could have pushed harder, so it can't be 10/10.

[TheEd]

Hi niikp

how are you finding things, have you felt tired after all the sessions coming one after another?

you should start easing to feeling better around Day 11

TheEd
ps.. I shall go delve deeper into the data as you progress
pps. will always reply, some days a little delayed

[niikp]

Hi Ed, thanks for the response, to be honest it's just nice to write down my progress somewhere.

I've not felt tired, I am getting at least 8 full hours of sleep per night and sleeping well. My waking pulse is always around 46-47. My quads (overall front of thighs) were feeling a little sore yesterday after the 5x1k, but I expected that to be the case, that's gone this morning. Nothing this morning seems odd.

I have no recurrence of knee pain at all which is great. From groin to knee inner thighs are a little sore and I have been icing.

Today I'll do my 60 mins at HR 140, pace would be whatever is needed to stay below 141. So it should be a 8.5km run.

I have a rest day tomorrow. At some point I'll get the program switched to Tuesday start.

Then I have the 5k paced run on Friday, I'll guess to aim at 23:30, my PB is 23:34 from Nov 2014. My 10km PB in Feb was run at 24:23 5km pace.

That's about it.

[niikp]

Yesterday was Day 10
Date KM Time Pace HR-AVG/Peak/Rest
Mar 18 60:00 6:41 145/153/103 after 10 mins or so

Frontal thighs were a little sore, iced yesterday. Today feel fine, total rest day.

Yesterday for a tiny little section (maybe 15 strides) I lifted my legs up and lengthened my stride and it felt great. 6:41 feels very heavy and trudging. I was aiming for HR 140 yesterday so a little too fast.

Waking HR was 46 today and my V02Max moved from 39 (were it has been since Nov) to 40 according to the Polar M400.

Looking forward to tomorrows 5k run where I am aiming at 22:30, if I get under 23:00 I'll be more than happy.