Sub 35 10k training

[Alex]

Hi all,

My name's Alex (as my username suggests) and I'll be aiming for the sub 35.

My pb's at the moment are:

• 1500: 4:12
  
• 3000: 9:11
  
• 10k 33:30
  
• Marthon: 2:47.46
  

I am, however, hideously out of shape; hence the need to start with the sub 35 program.

I ran a 10 mile race (1:01.41) last Sunday and am probably in shape for a 36:30 10k if I were to have to race one this week. I started with the 10k program on Monday (the recovery days) and have my first 10k planned Sunday October 11th.

I have a few questions regarding the plan; especially about the harder sessions.

5x2k in 3:25 seems like a lot, especially with only 90 seconds of rest inbetween. Seen as I'm not yet in sub 35 shape, would running those 2k's in maybe 3:30 be better? And is a bit more rest (let's say, 2 minutes) okay, or does that negate the whole idea behind this session?

5k paced run sub 17:30 is also quite fast but I suppose that's doable noting the restday before and the easy days afterwards.

Now I look at the plan more closely, the only really hard sessions are the 2k, 1k, 5k and race day sessions; so that should be doable. We'll see.

As for what I'm hoping to achieve: I've already run sub 35 before (few high 34's, one sublime 33:30 (no idea where that came from at the time; 6 years ago)) so I see reaching that milestone as a good first step. I want to then try and get under 33 and then just keep on improving.

As for my stats: I'm 27, 68kg, male.

With kindest regards,

Alex

[TheEd]

Hi Alex, and welcome to the forums

great to have you onboard. First off, starting with the structure of the sub 35 minute 10k program is not a problem, however to change things closer to your current fitness, it is wise to do a 4k time-trial. From this time we are then able to provide the pace for your sessions.

see article: 10k Program Tips

http://www.time-to-run.com/training/10k/programtips.htm

and then, also see this: Thoughts Behind 10k Programs

http://www.time-to-run.com/theed/10k-tra...e-programs

will leave you to browse and then will await your further questions / reply

TheEd

[Alex]

Hi TheEd,

As it happens I have already read those articles.

After thinking about it for a bit; I have decided to run a bit slower than the paces for sub 35; at least for the 2k session. 7:00 instead of 6:50. I will keep the 1k session at 3:20.

I don't see the need to do a 4k time trial at the moment. I think it's a lot easier to just run through the cycle once, run my 10k race and see what time I can run. Seems simple enough

(I really dislike running on the track for so many laps).

Did an 82 minute run today; felt easy but uncomfortable. I have a bit of a lower-back issue which doesn't slow me down so much, but on the annoyance scale it hits a solid 8/10.

The 2k session is on Friday. I'll let you know how I do. Looking forward to it.

With kindest regards,

Alex.

[TheEd]

keep me informed as to how the lower back goes, as this is either caused by an in-balance or core issues

with the 2k session, do consider starting slower for the first 2. Even if it is 7.10. This is a tough session and it would be good to achieve something positive.

Adding further to this, for the future try to get the 2k session on a Thursday, for now it is OK, however, roll the 1k session out on Tuesday

hope it goes well

TheEd

[Alex]

Okay, a little update.

The 2k session wasn't good. The first 2k was tough (6:50); took a bit more rest (2 min - 2 and a half min) Decided to go out slower for the second 2k (7:04) but the lower back issue was already starting to become a real problem. I started the 3rd 2k but only managed to run 1400 meters before I had to stop. Pace was okay; right leg wasn't.

This is probably a good moment to explain that lower-back issue. In 2012 I ran a marathon. I was on scheduele to run 2:38 but around 18k in I felt my right buttocks/right-lower-back starting to tighten up. At 24k I had to stop running and walk for a whole k. I was suddenly able to run again, even quite a decent pace, and I finished in 2:47.46 (which was still a pr; but I had run a 1:14 half the month before and was really in 2:38 shape). I was tired at te finish but I still managed to walk to the train, go home and get to bed.

The next morning I could not get out of bed.

For an entire 2 months I could not run.

A few physiotherapists looked at it; did some stuff and ultimately failed to find what it is (even had an MRI done; nothing to see). So what problems do I have now? When I run faster, I have to put my knees up higher. That stretch from my hammstring to my buttocks to my lower-back on my right side is the problem. It tightens and then makes me unable to fully make that stretch, so my right knee can't come up that high and I have to slow down. It feels annoying and for higher speeds it's a killer.

I have bought a stretching band yesterday and I will try to stretch those muscles. I have never really done any stretching before; so that might do the trick. if you have any suggestions here; they'd be much appreciated.

Anyway, back to the plan.

The 2k session was on friday (because my races are on Sundays and that's what the plan says) and even though I had to stop half-way, it didn't leave me de-moralized.

Rest yesterday (saturday) and I just came back from a 90 minute long run; pace about 4:45/k. It felt really nice. The slower speeds are no problem whatsoever.

I will just continue with the plan as it is written unless you say otherwise. I quite like the plan. Just have to fix that injury.

With kindest regards,

Alex.

[TheEd]

Alex, the 2k session is a toughie, and always best to start of easier. Your fitst 2k was sub 35 minute 10k pace, so that would have you under pressure straight away.

The intention is to build confidence with the program, not the reverse, and how we build confidence is to achieve what we can, and to slowly build up the pace and the distance. All the while feeling good about what we doing .

Have you had your legs checked for 'leg discrepancy' ? This is something which can happen very easily, and is common in runners, especially if muscles are tight etc.

lets get you pain free, and then look at running 'slower' to start with. If you do LESS for now, I can assure you that at the end of the 3 week cycle you will be running quicker than your training speed.

This is a natural occurrence for runners who have natural ability

we must nurture the talent

so lets get you pain free and you cut back and do the easiest of sessions to build up your confidence, then we set achievable short term goals and get the enjoyment back into the running

on we go

TheEd

[Alex]

Okay, a little update.

The 6x 1k session was also rubbish; I skipped the 5k session completely.

At the moment I'm just trying to complete the rest of the cycle and run the 10k so I know where I stand. Then change the times for the hard sessions accordingly for the new cycle (make them slower).

Still very much believe in this plan; just over-estimated my current form. Next sunday = raceday. I'll let you know how I get on Hopefully at least under 37.

With kindest regards,

Alex.

[TheEd]

Great Alex . one thing from experience, the more talented athletes often forget to be kind to themselves, taking a lot out of the body when there is not much to take

and when they relax up on themselves and back off a little and do the easy things, the form comes back quicker

so keep that in mind and dont look for performance

simply enjoy

on we go

TheEd

[Alex]

Just finished my first 3 week cycle, minus the 3 hard sessions. (The 2k session I only managed until halfway, the 1k session was even worse and the 5k paced session I had to skip because of other plans.)

That, coupled with not the best shape in the world, made me have quite low expectations of today's 10k race.

Actually, I ran 35:47. Far better than I had expected and even that wasn't all I had (there was a lot of wind) so yeah, I'm really happy!

I am doing a lot of things at the same time. I am trying to go to a midfoot-forefoot strike (I run all the 30/40-minute sessions barefoot on grass). I am stretching my hamstring muscles (because of lower-back issues) and adding core to the mix (same back issues) and that didn't combine well with the harder sessions because I was putting my body through, perhaps, too much at the same time.

Now that my body is getting used to it, I can seemingly run quite a lot better. Today was hopefully an example of that. 35:47 (and 3rd place) is a very good start! I might have to rename the title of this thread to "Sub 33 10k training" after the next cycle

So, onwards with the next 3 weeks. I have already chosen my next 10k race and it has more competition than this one (and a fast course) so a good chance that I'l hit that sub 35 if the next 3 weeks of training go well.

Yippie!~

ps: no splits because I didn't run with a watch, however fairly confident my second half was faster.

[TheEd]

nice going Alex, and this is the aspect I am talking about with athletes who indeed have talent.

Now for what the 'talented' athlete does after a nice start, they want to train harder to get better results, and that is where I say NO, continue to train 'under pace' and become consistent, absorbing the routine and enjoying being back running

so, lets have you at the same pace as you started with, and if the session is easy, then brilliant

hope the adaptation goes well

on we go

TheEd
ps. I do understand you are joking (a little ) however, thought it best I mention the above