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1/2 marathon training needs - KMK - 23-03-2009
Thanks for a great program!
I have used the sub 35 program last summer/autumn and now since February and find it working very well. Yesterday I ran 35.31 in a 10K feeling light and very well. I am 46 years and my personal best are 34.34 for 10K and 16.36 for 5K.
Now I want to prepare for a Ãâý marathon in 10 weeks time (European Veteran Championships EVACNS).
I am aware that the longest run needs to be extended to 2 hrs, but what other elements need to be modified? E.g. should the 5 x 2K intervalls become longer and slightly slower, e.g. 4-5 x 3K at 3.37? My goal is < 1 hr 17 min. and I have run 1:18:30 twice the year before last.
Br. KMK
1/2 marathon training needs - TheEd - 23-03-2009
Hi KMK and welcome
glad to hear the program works for you.
Getting straight into your questions asked, let me explain a little more
first off there is absolutely no need to extend any of the speed training sessions
5x2000m is more than sufficient, this covers your 10000m speed endurance, and is more than enough to handle a half marathon if your aerobic endurance is worked upon via the long runs.
each person is different and a very important aspect you should mention is your weight, if you are indeed light then your fall off is not that great
all athletes that have been coached (by myself) in a squad (group) on these programs have been able to race very successfully over the 21k
one top athlete ran a 62:26 the one weekend followed by a 22:53 8k the following weekend .. he was light and efficient, but was not small in frame
Training in a squad scenario where they were monitored to avoid injury led to results and if you look through some of the higher level programs you will see that the first Saturday of the cycle involves hillwork, we can chat a little about incorporating those sessions depending on your feedback.
do you do any morning runs?
Once you reply we can work through things together
Cheers
TheEd
1/2 marathon training needs - KMK - 23-03-2009
Thanks for the immediate reply!
Height 182 cm and 72 kg, right now, but I tend to loose weight to 70 kg when intensifying the training as during marathon training. And max HR 180 and resting HR 43. Twice a week I do run very easy (5.00 min/K) morning session of typically 5K to wake up and relax my legs.
Previously I have done some hill runs, but not systematically. Last year I included some speed runs (3 x 50 m), one leg forward jumps and lunges, which I believe were effective.
I have been in a running lactate test a year ago, when I was told to have 54 ml O2/min/kg, a very good running economy and a very high lactate tolerance, but also a high lactate level at sub max speed. However, then I had just struggled with getting back up to speed after 2 weeks of a heavy flu.
Do you suggest my focus should be on aerobic work to increase my HR limit for lactic acid build up? What about progressive runs?
Br. KMK
1/2 marathon training needs - TheEd - 23-03-2009
Hi KMK, taking your 35:30 time for 10k times by 2 add 4 minutes and then plus 2 minutes will give you 77 minutes
so this would give you the target you seek
having a good efficiency and then being able to lose a little more weight naturally will indeed make the 21k target easier
with progressive runs are you discussing more towards threshold runs or are you discussing runs of varied pace where progressively you increase pace during the run?
I am all for threshold runs for example 1hr tempo runs which in your case would be 1hr around 3.50 per K or 8k at 3.40 per k, but I do not like to recommend such things until I have learnt a little more about the athlete
for example .. the Saturday session Day 5 would be 10x600m hills at 10k effort .. this is quite a session and then consider your recovery on the Sunday is the long run, if the athlete does not do the 10x600m hill session they can do 1hr over rolling hills working the hills at 10k effort while maintaining a tempo for the other parts of the course during the session, then this is followed by the long run
athletes who have trained with me in the past (and where they could be monitored) would do an easy morning run up to 10k during the week on 3 to 4 occasions .. this supplementary adds to the athlete's aerobic base as well as aiding in the recovery from the quality sessions
so, whereas I am all for such levels of training my greatest concern is avoiding injury and in an uncontrolled environment such as the internet, less is definitely better
so if we take your preparation into consideration (and progressive development rapidly) we need to look at you doing 5 x 2000m in 6 mins 50 per 2k pace (3.25 per k)
whereas the session may be tough we need you working towards this goal and even if you do not achieve all the 2000's at target time, it is important you complete the session
for the Sunday long run for this week I would n't recommend you go over 90 minutes to start with once you have done your 6 x 1000m you can look to do 90 minutes the following weekend as well
with feedback and caution the 5 x 2000m is definitely the session that would lay the foundation and that is even for 21k prep
What are your thoughts on this?
TheEd
1/2 marathon training needs - KMK - 23-03-2009
Sounds right!
I will include more am runs, focus on the 2K (and let you know) and keep the long run to 90 min.
With progressive runs I mean runs at increasing pace where from 4.10 by about 10 sec per K to 3.35.
Rest in between the 10 x 600m hill run is = time need to get down again, or?
Cheers,
KMK
1/2 marathon training needs - TheEd - 23-03-2009
Hi there KMK,
aaah ha, the progressive runs, the way you mention, I have not written those into a program, the only thing variably close has been for marathon athletes where they do a run and the last 20 minutes of the session would be at marathon pace for instance, however giving tempo runs were often prescribed.
The hillwork .. I wouldn't recommend the session until we speak after the 2000's and how you feel come Friday
but .. with the hill session, it was a jog down recovery
keep your am runs at a very easy pace add a minimum of 1 minute per km to the 35 minute 10k race time achieved
please ask further questions for clarity
TheEd
1/2 marathon training needs - KMK - 25-04-2009
I tried 3 weeks ago to run the 5 x 2000m, but I gave in after 6.58 and 7.02, since I was afraid to injuring my hamstrings, that had been quite tense up to that day and became tense during the 3rd interval. Otherwise I followed the program, with the 6 x 1000m @ on avg. 3.22 and the 5K @ 17.42 on a sandy path. I should have run the 5 x 2000m yesterday, but had a slight cold, and thus ran today instead on a track @ 6.57, 6.57, 7.02, 7.04 and 7.05. So the speed is not quite there yet, but I felt ok during and after the run.
What speed do you recommend for the 2Hrs longest run, when I am preparing for the Ãâý-marathon in 5 weeks time? Is any hill work recommendable?
Br. Karsten
1/2 marathon training needs - TheEd - 26-04-2009
Hi KMK
training can go like that at times so don't despair. Your recent 2000m session is actually a very good start
If you are going to do a 2hr run, I hope that you are used to such 'time on feet' and that you are not rushing into such a session? If you are not used to doing 2hr runs, then rather be more cautious and do a distance of 25k max in training
please provide feedback on this, what is the furthest you have been in the last 3 months, please?
Thanks
TheEd
1/2 marathon training needs - KMK - 26-04-2009
Hi TheEd
The long runs this years have been up to 20-23k. I ran 20k in the 90 min. easy distance last Wednesday.
Br. KMK
1/2 marathon training needs - TheEd - 26-04-2009
OK .. then I suppose 2hr wouldn't be bad however I am concerned that maybe 2hr on feet at too slow a pace might be slightly damaging, so would you consider doing 25km around 1hr 45 min???
please ask questions regarding this
Thanks
TheEd
ps.. what is the status on your cold as a long run wouldn't be advisable if still lingering as the dehydration will have a detrimental effect on the muscles and system