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+--- Thread: coming off base phase/when to up the pace. (/Thread-coming-off-base-phase-when-to-up-the-pace)
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coming off base phase/when to up the pace. - TheEd - 28-12-2013
I have very definite thoughts on trail running, you are either biomechanically capable of running trail or you are not
the more often you run trail in a race the more prepared you become mentally and the muscles work in sync with the muscles
the 10km programs have a great amount of depth to them, especially once the athlete becomes consistent and moves through their gears (and different modes of the program)
with 'the lasses' and because there are just so many trail races on the island, it is the intention to use these runs as training races until they develop their 'motor skills' to be adept at racing
hopefully this assists you in answering your question, do ask more
in closing, the 10k programs do not need to be changed, you could look to do easy runs across trail and then run a few trail races to adapt
TheEd
coming off base phase/when to up the pace. - JonathanWardley - 29-12-2013
HI ED
thankyou for your thread and answering my question.i feel that for the best part of my training i do offroad anyhow mainly to avoid traffic and injury prevention.I think this serves a duel purpose and hopefully gain strengh by doing this.The reps for me will allways be on tarmac as theres no simulation its the real deal.This conversations sprung to mind while on the run funnaly enough.which really leads me on to the races coming up i plan race on the 12th of january on the trails then the 26th which will be 11.5k then on the trails again on the 9th of february.The frustration about all off this is theres no road 10k races on so ive sercum to racing trail,i think sub 35 is not far away and would really like to be working on the sub 33 program as i edge forward with the speed work.its 2k reps for me tommorrow so will let you know how it went till then thanks alot and a happy new year too you regards jon.
coming off base phase/when to up the pace. - TheEd - 29-12-2013
we can find a solution, I have the problem with the 'lasses' and the awkwardness of trail and the need for specialist shoes is also a problem
at your speed I do believe you need trail shoes
let's see how it goes, always remember the importance of recovery, and especially for you, as you nurture the speed back
it certainly is not gone, just the thing called life delaying things
TheEd
coming off base phase/when to up the pace. - JonathanWardley - 30-12-2013
Hi Ed,
great thread there just wanted to round up a little on the trail racing I've got a pair of merrell barefoot which to be honest don't really cut it for me. if I hit anything sharp in the shoe or something hard it hurts my heals. I've just bought a few pairs off lightweight trail shoes there giving them away in the sales so I snapped them up. Today was a bit off a frustration I was swimming against the tide as they say the least after a friend did a no show to train I set my stall out to run 5x2 k on the warm up I realized that the head wind was going to mess things up for me so I improvised by doing a tempo run of 8k in 29.52 started slowly into the wind and picked it up over time went well but not the session I had planed feeling a bit messed up now as my race is the 12th and feel unsure how to get the best result without over cooking it..I know its only the first race on the trails and will focus on my rest also. I would like to do the 1k reps again before the weeks out but again that goes against the grain off the program. Over to you and thanks for the vote of confidence best wishes jon.
coming off base phase/when to up the pace. - TheEd - 30-12-2013
when it is windy .. run the way with the wind behind you faster and when you hit the wind don't exert too much effort into the wind
TheEd
ps.. I shall be looking (hoping) to review some Salomon shoes
coming off base phase/when to up the pace. - JonathanWardley - 31-12-2013
Hi Ed,
I think I've hatched a plan to run say 5-6 1k reps @ 3.30 towards the weekend will keep the rest short and see how we go its a tricky one really as yesterday messed things up maybe the 5k pace run is the the way to go. just know I should do some quality to end the week and prepare for the trail race next week. As for the trail shoes mix bag really one pair have gave me blisters so wont race in them the new balance are good and lighter so there looking good. The addidas shoes are good for long runs and merrels are good for collecting dust on the shelf. wishing you a very happy new year regards jon.
coming off base phase/when to up the pace. - JonathanWardley - 02-01-2014
Hi Ed,
just a few lines to bring in the new year and thoughts about interval training that i have been giving a lot of thought over...My question is about 1k reps and your thoughts of which would be the best stimulus by building extra reps so for example 8x1000 with 1 min recovery or standard 6x1000 with less recovery .My feeling is that lowing the recovery is the best way too go to avoid the stop start and simulation of running at race pace to include the mental aspect that you know your getting a rest which you wouldn't in a race.Just thought i would bring this to the table as i figure i am not the only person feeling this way out.The other option is to run faster reps and start all over which might not be practical to your current fitness level. well that's all Ive got for you just wanted to bring something fresh into the forums regards Jon.
coming off base phase/when to up the pace. - TheEd - 02-01-2014
Hi Jon .. the cycles are developed in a way to achieve progress in many areas
the 5 x 2k session aimed at 10k speed is phenomenal
the 6 x 1k session with the 60 second Rest at 5k pace is accurate to within 25 seconds
if you do the 6 x 1k session take your average per km time and times by 5 and then add 25 seconds, you should run no slower than that time in a race
theoretically speaking that 5k time is of value for your 10k racing, not towards 5k racing, as it allows for your fast 1st 1km and the last 1km
so in our style of racing, you jump out quick the first 1k, settle into the rhythm of what you should run for you overall 10k pace .. cruise through 5k with the knowledge that your 5k speed should give you confidence at this point, when you come to 7km, you work hard to maintain the pace for each km, at this point the speed endurance gained from the 10k session should kick in
the last 1km takes care of itself, and this we work on with a series of drills we develop over time
hopefully I haven't over-elaborated here, there is so much more to these programs, when used in a squad coaching environment, our top athletes ran sub 14 for 5km or a sub 3.50 for 1500m according to the time of year and what was needed, off the same format (6 x 1k) and then the further other sessions not mentioned
long-term goals and short-term achievement points
all the best
TheEd
coming off base phase/when to up the pace. - JonathanWardley - 02-01-2014
Hi Ed,
great read your last thread and some very interesting concepts to digest. I for one have gain a lot already from your programs and have recommended them to other friends to try. I think the question I was trying to answer in my own mind was a what point do you say to yourself hey your hitting the times for this program when do you up your game. Well I could stay awake all-night arguing the toss with myself so feels better to put it to the board as apposed to second guessing myself on already solid foundation..to that end ill rest assured now and stop asking questions. But I do like to talk about training I guess that's why I bring these thought to the forums thanks again for a great detail reply regards jon.ps one more week and its show time. Yippee.
coming off base phase/when to up the pace. - TheEd - 02-01-2014
Jon .. the secret behind the programs is not to increase the speed too quickly but instead try to get more consistency .. so for example ..
we set out the 6 x 1k R60 at a speed of 3.20 per k
once you hitting those targets .. we focus on bringing the long run in line, building it up to 18k .. and if this easy run is with a heart rate monitor, we able to see the improvement by the easy run, say @ 140bpm you running 1 minute slower per km than 10k pace
then the paced run at 160 bpm should be at a speed which is around 10 to 20 seconds per k slower than 10k race pace, for example
still running races in-between, as not all races are the same
then once you have done maybe 3 to 4 cycles, doing a planned off-period
then coming back with a 4k time-trial and noting that the speed has not dropped that much
once you achieve this, then you can run through a cycle and begin to up the speed of the sessions
with the added aerobic gain, the athlete is then able to handle faster sessions, you will note that hillwork sessions and more tempo runs are integrated
for now the idea is to get results off the KISS approach (keeping it simple)
consistency is the biggest need for improvement and it takes patience while still enjoying what you do .. let the results come instead of looking for them
there are certain elements that your heart rate and recovery pulse will tell you
simply accept them .. build, become strong, stay injury free and the results will show accordingly
hope this helps
TheEd